I am not the most politically correct person ever put on the earth and I like it that way. INS is not politically correct and it’ll stay like that as long as I’m around. I’ve said before that the biggest strike against pro-choice organizations like Planned Parenthood and NARAL is that they try so hard to be politically correct. Very recently in Wisconsin a middle-aged white Christian man (color me surprised) who had a massacre at the Madison WI PP planned was stupid enough to discharge his gun at a Motel 6 and have his cunning plan thwarted. The president of Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin on her appearance on The Rachel Maddow Show, though, was very careful to avoid the nasty A word and point out about how 97% of the clinic’s 73,000 patients did not come for abortions.
PP? I love the work you do. I happily give you my money through my employer’s United Way campaign. But you need to woman and man up, seriously. Because of your continued avoidance of that nasty A word the majority of Americans believe that your clinics are wrong and evil despite your impassioned words to the contrary. Cecile Richards, president of PP USA and the daughter of a woman who spoke her mind and had one of the best bullshit detectors ever? LEARN FROM HER. Get up in front of a crowd and say “you know what? Abortion isn’t that big a deal and we need to stop making it one. One out of three American women will have an abortion during her lifetime. Yes, we need to tighten up birth control but until a method’s 100 percent effective we need to have abortion available so guess what? It’s not going away.” I’m tired of reading about white middle-aged men–you know, those who are TOTALLY never going to get pregnant–planning mowdowns at clinics. I’m tired of earnest white women skirting around abortion because it’s like OMG I DON’T WANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY.
If you’re in the Richmond, VA area I want to do this and I’m dead serious. I want a group of women to confront the idiot protesters and scream NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! Experience has shown me that your average anti is a humongous wimp when confronted. Those of us who are pro-choice need to do this, especially now. We need to take our passion, our outrage and our anger publicly and stop letting the PC police speak for us. We need to let women of all ages go in to get things taken care of without getting guilt-tripped. Who’s with me?
OMG! YES, GIRL, YES!
I have to say that as someone who is pro-life, while I disagree with your views (I think abortion is a sad thing and perhaps other pro-choicers you are referring to look at abortion as a necessary evil not something to celebrate is my guess) I must give you kudos for at least standing your ground on what you feel. I also realize that abortion is “something that’s going to happen” as you say untill there is a method out there that’s 100%. What I truly DON’T get, honestly is why abortion is nearly as common as it was 35 years ago (Roe vs Wade). I know that birth control fails, but to the tune of 1 in 3 women having abortions??? Seems like folks are either being irresponsible or birth control isn’t as effective as claimed.
As far as what you want to do with the “none of your business” stuff, I see where you’re coming from and I’d NEVER stand in front of an abortion clinic and shout at women (because they dont need guilt trips, they need support and a better alternative than abortion). But if I feel abortion is wrong I have EVERY RIGHT to say so, in a loving way. My guess is that’s why you allow different viewpoints.
I know that birth control fails, but to the tune of 1 in 3 women having abortions???
I know this is probably a rhetorical question designed to make all the “sluts” who’ve had abortions feel bad, but just in case you’d be willing to listen to an answer…
It’s the numbers. Consider a method of birth control that’s 98% effective. That’s pretty good, right? But that means that of 100 women using this method of birth control regularly and correctly for one year, 2 will get pregnant. So a hypothetical immortal woman who never went through menopause (and had sex regularly using a 98% effective birth control method) could expect to be pregnant about once every 50 years. A real life woman who might be sexually active and fertile for 30 or so years therefore would have about a 50-67% chance of becoming unintentionally pregnant some time in her life. So if about 1/2 of the women who become unintentionally pregnant have abortions, there’s a 1/4 lifetime rate.
Then there are those situations where birth control isn’t an option or isn’t relevant. According to RAINN, about 1/4 of a million women are sexually assaulted in the US every year (not counting victims under age 12). That’s another 250,000 women who may need abortions through no “fault” of their own. Again, multiply that by a woman’s reproductive lifetime and you’ll get an astonishing number of unwanted pregnancies.
Finally, as women are more willing to take on risky pregnancies, more are going to get into trouble and need an abortion. That’s who make up a lot of the late abortions that the “pro-life” movement decrys: women trying to hold on to a marginal pregnancy who finally have to admit that it isn’t working. Not allowing these abortions won’t save any fetuses, it’ll simply kill more women.
they dont need guilt trips, they need support and a better alternative than abortion
I kind of almost agree with this statement-but probably not at all in the way you meant it. Adoption isn’t a better alternative. Adoption can and usually does do severe damage to the relinquishing mother. People evolved to cope with fetal loss-miscarriages are common-but NOT abandon their babies. And no matter how much you know you’ve left your baby with a loving family, to your subconscious it’s going to feel like you left it for the wolves to eat. No, I’d rather see more support for women who’d really like to keep the baby but feel it isn’t feasible because of their circumstances. More generous PAID family leave (for both parents). More high quality subsidized daycare, preschools, and after school activities. Better public health insurance so that the mother and baby can be assured of getting the care they need-including 10 years after the birth when the kiddo has an ear infection or the mother has a UTI. More flexibility in jobs and education so that young women with babies can continue to go to school or work without compromising their child’s health and development.
All that’s going to cost money. Are you willing to pay? How do you feel about reducing abortion by, say, 50% at the cost of 50% higher taxes?
“I know that this is probably a rhetorical question designed to make all the “sluts” who’ve had abortions feel bad….” No I dont think so, Someone else. I said what I said BECAUSE. THE. NUMBERS. DONT. SEEM. TO. ADD. UP. If a birth control method has a 2% failure rate then that should drop the number of unintended pregnancies dramatically. You know-I try to assume the BEST about pro-choicers but on this debate forum it’s getting a bit hard cuz I’ve had folks snark at me or assume the WORST about me……maybe, Somone else, you could give me the benefit of the doubt???
“I kind of almost agree with this statement-but probably not at all in the way you meant it. For the sake of clarity-I meant it as “I may not agree with a woman having an abortion, but she is most likely going through a very difficult and painful time in her life and she needs love, encouragement, and support, not someone pointing a finger and condemning her.” (you have NO RIGHT to accuse me of the “sluts need to feel bad” mentality without being able to back it up–just because I might disagree with your stance on abortion, or someone choosing it doesn’t mean I have no compassion).
Where you mention the family leave, insurance, daycare and preschools–you are right on!! Women also need living wage jobs (and men too, to help with support)….which means places like Wal-Mart should be boycotted if possible, at least until they start paying a living wage…I currently cant boycott them due to where I live.
I agree that adoption can do damage but if offers a wonderful solution to help couples that cannot have children on their own, and biological mothers who aren’t ready for motherhood or simply dont wish to become parents (whether that be “right now” or “never”). What I dont get is that with abortion you are denying a human being a chance at life…when that human being is born it is the same person as in the womb, only difference is level of development which is one of the reasons I dont understand or agree with the “potential person” argument of why a fetus who isnt sentient is less of a person.
The taxes issue??? Weeellll….how about not letting folks get Social Security for things like “drug addiction” or “mental illness” (unless they’re so mentally ill they have to be in a mental hospital, otherwise get counseling, take your meds, and get to work). And that’s just the tip of the iceberg
Your math skills and comprehension are lacking. I’m not shocked.
The numbers do add up. Take another look at the figures presented by Someone else. 2% failure rate/year = more than 50% of women will become unintentionally pregnant over the course of a lifetime, assuming 30 years of regular sexual activity.
It may be alarming to discover that current “reliable” methods of birth control provide such inadequate protection even when used correctly, but it’s the truth. Not something your GYN will be likely to admit, BTW, especially since most haven’t bothered to do the math themselves.
Leah unless someone finds their soulmate at age 18 and starts having regular sex then most women aren’t having regular sex for 30 consecutive years. (and I hate to burst your bubble hon but even commited couples-which is rare these days-have dry spells, sometimes extended ones. Either that or a woman would basically have to have one boyfriend after the other. The only remaining scenarios are women who like to have sex for the sake of sex, or prostitutes. Not only that, but the NATIONAL ABORTION FEDERATION THEMSELVES show numbers that prove more people are being irresponsible than you’d like to admit. (The stories on this very site show the same thing).
The OB/GYN’s aren’t doing their math??? I highly doubt that and even if they’re not it’s not their job, it’s the job of the drug companies and birth control manufacturers to make sure their product is effective.
“women who like to have sex for the sake of sex”
I like to have sex for the sake of sex. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Why can’t it be a fun, exciting activity between two, or more, consenting parties. The only people who seem to have an issue are people who aren’t properly satisfied and might want to try getting out there a bit more.
I have a long term partner, I consider him to be the most perfect man in the known universe, but I can tell you he definitely isn’t the boy I thought was my soulmate at age 18. Building these unreasonable expectations for girls, telling them they have to find someone perfect straight away or they are a failure is fucked up. I went through multiple sexual partners before I found my someone and I’m happier for it. I know I have the best because I can compare it to something less substantial.
What in the world was all that for, sex-for-the-sake-of-sex nikki?? I made the comment that I did about it referring to how often the average woman realisically has sex, not whether it’s right or wrong to have sex for the sake of sex. That’s a whole other cookie.
Oh, and btw–I don’t happen to agree with your viewpoint on the subject but I DO respect it. My point of view has nothing to do with my level of satisfaction or my need to get out more, it has to do with my worldview, sweetheart.
No I don’t think that most girls find someone perfect straight away, and expecting that from someone is VERY unrealistic. But I’ve noticed that as society accepts sex more and more casually, it seems that there are less and less committed relationships and more broken hearts. And there also seems to be a more prevalent mindset, even among married folks, to leave when the going gets tough instead of staying committed and working it out….personally I think casual sex just doesn’t help-though it’s only one piece of the pie.
Purchase for yourself two ten sided dice. Designate one to be the tens digit and one to be the ones digit.
Roll them.
Assume a particular woman has sex 4 times a week. That’s 200 times a year. Roll those dice 200 times. Count how many times a 98, 99, and 100 showed up on those dice. That’s how many times that year her birth control failed.
Repeat the experiment again for the next year. And the next.
Count those failures up. On average, over those three ‘years’, her birth control will have failed 18 times.
Is is really so hard to believe that in those three years she had at least one pregnancy?
WithinthisMind, that’s a good illustration, but honestly, do you think it’s realistic that most women have sex 4 times a week EVERY SINGLE WEEK for 30 years? Somehow I doubt it. More abortions result from birth control being used incorrectly or not being used than birth control failing.
Robin,
My illustration was 3 years. Do you think it’s so unrealistic for a significant number of young, healthy women to have sex 4 times a week while they are in the prime of their lives?
So it drops to 2 times a week five years later. Roll the dice, the odds are still in favor of a pregnancy scare or two.
And define ‘used incorrectly’. Taking your birth control pill an hour late is ‘used incorrectly’. It’s also something quite likely to happen. Technically, taking certain medications with your birth control is also ‘used incorrectly’, but many doctors won’t tell you about those side effects. Having the flu and doing some vomiting for a couple days is also ‘used incorrectly’, one strong enough to take a month or so to recover. I’ve been sick that often 4 times in the past 6 years. You?
Leah I can’t find where you said 3 years, I used 30 referring to the original comment. If a woman who is healthy and sexually active with a good sex drive (like me, I love to have fun with hubby ;) no it isn’t unrealistic that she’ll have sex 4 times a week during her prime. But 4 times a week the WHOLE time she’s in her prime-no I don’t think so because breakups happen, work happens, life happens and women in their prime are oftentimes very busy.
When I say incorrectly yes all those things count that you mentioned. But the more obvious things happen too, like forgetting to take the pill for a few days, not using a condom, general carelessness. Have I been sick that often in 4 years? I had the flu for a week once, other than that the occasional cold or cough. I missed the swine flu due to washing my hands like a maniac (I worked in a preschool and others caught it) and using Bath and Body works antibacterial hand lotion. Normally I dont like antibacterial but during flu season I use that lotion cuz it keeps hands moisturized (preschool soap isn’t kind to hands) smelling good and gets germs.
I meant WithinthisMind, not Leah. Sorry! (note to self, proof-read posts….
Seriously?
“Repeat the experiment again for the next year. And the next.”
1+1+1=3
Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit.
offers a wonderful solution to help couples that cannot have children on their own,
So basically you’re saying that you want to force women who are pregnant and don’t want to be to be baby factories for more “deserving” couples. I notice that you say COUPLES. No single parents or gay and lesbian families in your world, I guess. Never mind the damage to the birth mother, the (fortunately small) number of women who will die trying to fulfill your demands, the children in foster care or institutions who are already alive and waiting for a family, etc. Just plop out more babies for those who can afford them.
I also notice that you’re not willing to pay more taxes to help support women who would like to complete their unplanned pregnancies and raise the baby. Just a plan for making life harder for more “undeserving” people. Again, showing the typical lack of compassion and empathy of the self-named pro-life movement.
“so basically you’re saying that you want to force women who are pregnant and dont want to be baby factories for more ‘deserving couples’….I notice that you say COUPLES. No single parents or gay and lesbian families in your world, I guess.”
Sweetie there was an awful lot of ASSUMING you did there…So let me correct you…*sigh*
No I dont want women to be “baby factories” for more deserving couples-first of all a factory is something that produces something on a regular basis-unless you’re talking about a couple who is trying to have lots of kids and therefore gets pregnant every chance they get, most women are not “baby factories.” Did you miss my statement where I said that I believe a woman has a right to choose whether and when she becomes a mother? Abortion is the only choice I don’t support. I cant stress that point enough.
Just because I said the word “couples” doesn’t mean there aren’t gay, lesbian or single couples in my world, again YOU ASSUMED. If you must know, I was raised by a single mom until age 12, raised my boys as a single mom when hubby and I were seperated for over a year and a half, and while due to my spiritual beliefs I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, I am good friends with a lesbian couple in our neighborhood and think they are doing a wonderful job raising their kids.
You “notice” I’m not willing to pay extra taxes??? I never said that, I pointed out how our tax dollars are being wasted already, I never said a word about what taxes I was or wasn’t willing to pay. I couldn’t pay more taxes more now even if I wanted to, living at the poverty level and whatnot, unless I’m able to live rent-free and someone can donate a car to me (or the money I still owe on mine).
And I suppose the pro-life groups out there that offer support, encouragement, financial help and many times homes to women going through an unplanned pregnancy are “lacking compassion and empathy?” Oh-kay then. Personally I’ll still assume the best out of you and hope that one day you can extend the same courtesy to someone of the other side.
So what you are saying here is that you are pro-slavery.
You are a force-birther.
You would strip a woman of her right to consent to who can use her body.
Yes, you are lacking compassion and empathy.
with abortion you are denying a human being a chance at life…when that human being is born it is the same person as in the womb, only difference is level of development
In what way can a fetus or even more so an embryo be described as a “person”? An embryo has no brain whatsoever and a fetus almost certainly has no conscious thought. Suppose (and may it always be hypothetical!) someone you care about and are responsible for were sick or injured to the point that their brain activity were on the level of a 20 week old fetus. The hospital would be having a discussion about withdrawl of care with you and no one would call you a murderer if you chose to withdraw care. If the same person had the brain activity of an embryo, they’d be having an organ donation discussion with you and would be withdrawing life support (unless organ donation was contemplated) with or without your consent because no brain activity=no human life. Why should it be any different for an embryo?
And as for “denying a being a chance at life” you do that every time you have a period or (less dramatically) recycle your sperm. Does birth control-including abstinence-equal murder?
For your question “in what way can a fetus be described as a person?” Well you aren’t dealing with anything other than a human being, so to me at least that equals person. You make an interesting point about an embryo having no brain (and I dont know when specifically that develops) but the only reason why not is because of state of development-after conception there is nothing added to make an embryo/fetus more of a person. All the “data” so to speak is there already. Comparing that to a person with no brain activity–well just because a person has no brain activity doesn’t mean you should kill them or they are any less of a human being…no one should have the power to take human life. This of course is different than someone who has to be on a respirator in order to be kept alive..basically a vegetable.
I also believe that when sperm are recycled or I have my period that I am NOT denying someone a chance at life because it takes fertilization for all the necessary components for a unique human being to develop. So the answer to your last question is no. If I believed birth control equaled murder I wouldn’t practice it! :D
“I also believe that when sperm are recycled or I have my period that I am NOT denying someone a chance at life because it takes fertilization for all the necessary components for a unique human being to develop.”
Actually, Robin, you kind of are. Of all the egg cells that are disposed of during your menstrual cycle, some of those eggs WILL be fertilized. In fact, one of the points of an oral contraceptive is to make it more difficult to allow implantation. Also, I have seen it theorized that every woman, at one point in her life, will have at least one “miscarriage” that she is not even aware of due to failed implantation. In essence, every woman who is sexually active has the potential to be a murderer with every menses because there is no way to tell when the period is due to lack of fertilization or due to lack of implantation.
I’ve heard that theory too, that sometimes you expel fertilized eggs, and also the point you are saying about oral contraception. I did a little research on it and went to pro-life AND pro-choice sources and what I came up with is that there isn’t enough evidence to prove that birth control pills have abortifacient properties. This is according to either the ProLife Physicians Website or Physicians for Life, not sure which. Unless they are affiliated and I didn’t realize that.
Robyn, the same old broken record and attention whore. Honey, I dont understand why ure wasting ur time on this blog, honestly. This is a place for smart, articulate, open-minded, normal people/women, not for nutcases like u. U really dont have anything better to do with ur life than coming here and spread ur anti-life shit? U think ure gonna solve anything? U think an imaginary friend in the clouds will appreciate ur useless efforts? Poor u … Well, as far as Im concerned u can spend here a lifetime, but Im telling u its all in vain. Enjoy ur own rantings!
xyz-how many times do I have to reiterate that the reason I am on this blog is to try and understand the pro-choice perspective (and my own better as a result as well)? I’m not an “attention whore” as you think.
“this is a place for smart, articulate, open-minded normal people/women, not ‘nutcases’ like me? I consider myself to be smart, and open minded. Articulate? Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. I am not a professional debater and will even say there’s a good chance my own point of view on abortion might have flaws. If I wasn’t open-minded why would I have friends from different walks of life than me?
I dont have an “imaginary friend” in the sky, btw. Though I am a Christian (sometimes a lousy one, but trying to get a little better day by day). I’m not looking to change anyone’s mind or anything like that, just to understand and possibly connect with folks on the other side. Because I do respect your point of view.
My name is spelled with an ‘i’ not a ‘y’. Just FYI. I dont spend all my time here on this blog, or even everyday. All you seem to do, other than one comment where you made a snide reply about eugenics is call me names, without backing it up ONE SOLITARY TIME. Speaks volumes….
On the other hand I have responded to every single thing you have accused me of and given my point of view on it. Are you so well-grounded in your precious pro-choice stand that you can’t even back up your arguments? Or do you just get some sick thrill out of being a jerk? I’ve made an effort to try and be friendly in this debate.
Yes I do read the Bible but my pro-life beliefs are based on science as well. You think an embryo/fetus is “just a bunch of cells?” SO ARE BORN PEOPLE. We are just more developed. And yes they ARE human beings-you haven’t given me ONE SHRED of evidence to even consider otherwise. If they aren’t human beings are they aliens? Goats? Squirrels?
“And when u think we’re in the 21st century…not…” Try typing stuff that actually makes sense wouldja? And either get a dictionary or make use of spellcheck while you’re at it. And you say I’m the idiot….LMAO!
Ure picking on irrelevant things instead of using ur brain and offerring reasonable explanations. Typical. But how to use ur brain when u dont have one? Robyn with an “i” or with an “y”… U’re ridiculous, bitch. Case closed. U can keep on ranting.
Get over yourself, xyz. If you think I’m picking on irrelevant things, then BACK. IT. UP.
As far as the name thing? At least I spell your name right….oh and try spell check. It’s a really cool “21st century” thing. :)
Oh and I have a brain, thank you very much…just because you get some sick thrill out of snarking doesn’t make you right-not that I need your approval anyway. When you can make a civil reply to me or you can refute with your point of view (and God forbid, respectfully) ONE THING aside from the eugenics comment you’ve already made maybe I’ll pay attention to stuff you have to say. Otherwise, leave me alone. You’re wasting my time.
And btw, moron, read some more anatomy instead of that fairytale collection called bible and stop telling us that a bunch of cells equals a human being and its value is way beyond its mother/carrier value. And when u think we’re in the 21st century…. Not…
I’m in Virginia, I resent political correctness in the war on women, I’m passionate and outraged and angered and I’m with you!
It’s a war on abortion, not women hon.
LMAO, what’s ur IQ?
Oh-high enough that at least I know what SPELL CHECK is!!! Ha!
How do you intend to prevent women from having abortions?
Consider this – growing in my garden right now are at least five herbs that can be (and have, over the course of history) used to induce a miscarriage.
How do you intend to prevent me from having an abortion?
Or are you only intending to prevent me from having an abortion safely?
That is why it isn’t a ‘war on abortion’, it’s a war on women.
You aren’t pro-life. You are pro-slavery.
You and every other forced-birther are no different from rapists, stripping women of the right to consent to how their bodies are used.
I don’t think I can prevent women from having abortions, WithinthisMind. That doesn’t think I think it’s right, either. You always see the “What if abortion was illegal, women would die” card-but NO ONE has answered with a pro-choice point of view my response that Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of NARAL states that they fabricated the numbers of how many women died from illegal abortions.
I’m a forced-birther? Uhm, interesting way to put it, but last I checked there was something called BIRTH CONTROL out there. I am NOT pro-slavery either. I’ve never thought it was right-and comparing me to a rapist???? Seriously??? Because I don’t think it’s right for women to take innocent human life?? I don’t think so. How many freaking times do I have to reiterate that abortion is the ONLY CHOICE I DON’T SUPPORT??? I respect your opinion, WithinthisMind, but it doesn’t seem like you have any respect for mine. Comparing me to a rapist was a pretty damn low blow.
And yet, some of the countries in which abortion is illegal have much higher abortion rates than the US.
Yes, you are a forced birther. If you are not pro-choice, you are a forced birther. If you are not pro-choice, you are pro-slavery.
You would enslave a woman, taking control of her body, forcing her to submit to your will and surrender her body to the needs of another for 9 months (technically 10, actually). That is slavery. That is being a forced birther. And yes, that is comparable to rape. You are taking away a woman’s right to consent to what happens to her own body. That is the equivalent of rape.
It is my body. I decide who gets to use it. The difference between rape and sex is consent. The difference between a forced birth and a wanted pregnancy is consent. You would take away that consent. How are you different from the rapist?
You talk about “my body” but seem to ignore that an abortion does not just involve YOUR body it involves an embryo or a fetus as well. I consider embryos and fetuses to be people, b/c I know of nothing aside from being less developed than others are and being dependent, that makes them different than a born person.
As far as how you describe enslavement-aside from rape, when you choose to have sex, protected or not, you should accept that the act comes with potential consequences (relationship-related, STD’s, or pregnancy). There is no way to protect the rights of an embryo/fetus without the pregnancy continuing through those 40 weeks (that is more accurate than months) or viability. If there were a way to do so, or if I didn’t think that abortion was taking an innocent human life, I would not be against it. Planned Parenthood on their website even states that if a fetus was recognized as a person, abortion would be murder and therefore illegal.
So just say, theoretically, that a fetus is a person (I know you feel differently). If this was UNDISPUTED FACT, would the bodily autonomy argument hold any water?
“You talk about “my body” but seem to ignore that an abortion does not just involve YOUR body it involves an embryo or a fetus as well. ”
And? Seriously, and?
It’s my body. I decide who gets to use it. That means if someone attempts to use it against my will, I am justified in using lethal force to stop them. That is true if someone is trying to kill me, true if someone is trying to rape me, and true if someone is trying to engage in a parasitical relationship with my uterus.
I am allowed to withdraw consent to the use of my body at any time. If the ‘person’ using my body does not heed that withdraw of consent, I am allowed to use force.
So, let’s go with the whole ‘fetus is a person’ thing. It’s a person, just like every other person.
Are you saying, Robin, that if I went on a date and invited the person back to my apartment, and the person decided to use my sexual organs as that person saw fit in spite of me screaming ‘NO!’, the only option available to me would be to lie there and take it because otherwise, I could hurt the person raping me? That if I grabbed a knick knack from the coffee table and bashed this person who was in the act of raping me over the head with it, I would be guilty of murder?
Why, yes, indeed, that is exactly what you are saying. You are saying that my right of bodily autonomy ends when exercising that right could damage another person.
And that, Robin, is why you are essentially a rapist. Because you actually believe a fetus is a person and think that just being a person entitles someone to completely disregard the basic human rights and dignity of a woman and use her body against her will.
I think this is of maximum interest:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges
Here’s an honest question:
I suffer from extreme anxiety and depression–in the past, I’ve cut AND considered suicide. My life literally hinged on whether or not I was hired, or fired, or laid off. The only thing that helps this is the fact that I take Prozac AND Adderall. They help with my mood swings and have made me an all-around happier, more stable person.
If I got pregnant–either by rape or consensual sexual activity–I would have to go off my medication. I’ve been on Welbutrin, Zoloft, and at least one other pill. None of them worked. And when I go off my meds, the violent anger, anxiety, and depression comes back full force–along with my suicidal impulses.
Here is my question:
Under current law in most states–and to most right-to-lifers–would my situation land me under the “life endangerment” exception that most of them hold so dear? Or would I be told I “need help,” despite the fact that I AM getting help and it doesn’t work all the time–and be forced to carry to term?
I know that in one of the Before Roe stories a doctor wrote a letter saying that the contributor was mentally ill and that facilitated the abortion. Under the circumstances you should keep a copy of your medical history handy and if you find yourself in that situation bring it along.
Thanks for the advice, Patricia, I’ll keep it in mind.
I’m actually curious as to how a pro-lifer would answer that question. I mean, you hear about z/e/f’s causing the physical death of the mother all the time, but they never address self-injury, suicidal individuals, depressives…I mean, do they just use that as justification to lock a mentally ill woman up in a straitjacket until she gives birth?
If you’d like to know how a pro-lifer would answer that question, contact Physicians for Life or ProLife Physicians and let us know what their response is.
one response is that the woman should go off medication and consent to being locked in a mental institution, often tied down, for the duration of her pregnancy. And possibly remain in the institution while breast feeding.
And that is why I will never again have an anti-choice ob/gyn or any other type of doctor.
And this too. Only in America!?
http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-house-votes-ban-abortions-detectable-heartbeat-223151023.html
…Okay, so I have no idea what happened to my last comment (you’re usually able to see it waiting for approval), but apparently pro-lifers think that “mental illness” means “lying women trying to shirk responsibility” and judging by what the Guttenmacher Institute and some articles about Obama said, mental health is apparently not a good enough reason to abort.
On the other hand, I did find a great article about how pregnancy and childbirth mess with your hormones and mental state: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/26/abortion-mental-health_n_814582.html
Definitely going to look into getting a copy of my medical records. This research pretty much cinches my desire to get my tubes tied. Or get an IUD, at the very least.
Well said Patricia! I’m totally with you! I have driven past random sightings of “pro-lifers” on the side of the road, throughout my town, with their posters of “aborted fetuses” and banners reading “don’t kill children”. It’s disgusting, and it makes me want to shout at them, to leave us the hell alone! Yes I agree, more women (and men) need to stand up to these anti-choicers.
A random thing as well, I was on the movie message boards today, and some random poster had this lovely quote for their signature: “Abortion doesn’t make you unpregnant, just the mother of a dead baby.” Aww, gotta love that! (barf) And before that, the same poster was talking about a movie where he wanted to punch a FEMALE character in the face. Misogyny REALLY scares the hell out of me.
Some pro-lifers really DO get out of line, Emie. What is your opinion of people who consider themselves pro-life AND feminist, such as Abby Johnson (former Planned Parenthood director) and the organization Feminists for Life?
You cannot be a feminist and forced-birther (the more accurate term for ‘pro-life’).
To be a forced birther means you take away one of the most basic rights a woman possesses, the right of bodily autonomy. You render her right to consent completely meaningless. You put the worth of the woman below the worth of the fetus.
If you are a forced birther, and call yourself a feminist, you are lying.
Bad news..
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-states-passed-record-number-laws-restricting-abortion-195412442.html
Even worse…
http://news.yahoo.com/mo-gov-let-term-abortion-bill-become-law-191207654.html
Okay, since I’m seeing the same old tired arguments coming up from BOTH sides repeatedly I’m shutting down comments on this one. Agree to disagree and move on.