Recently, I was interviewed by World magazine, which for lack of a better term is a Christian version of Time, for an article about Silent No More, the organization that basically encourages women to blame abortion for everything that’s gone wrong in their lives. When the request first came back in February I was rather skeptical, this being the first time I’d been approached by a publication that I was pretty sure was not pro-choice (/sarcasm). However, Lynn Vincent, who is World‘s feature editor, did a lot to set me at ease, offering to conduct the interview via e-mail so I could make sure I wasn’t misquoted and then asking some pretty thoughtful questions. Only about half the interview was printed, but still the overall tone I wanted to convey got through. Here’s the article.
Needless to say, I’m not Silent No More’s biggest fan. I think it’s a hugely exploitative group, trotting out damaged women who weep seemingly on cue and then crowing “See, see? Look what abortion did!” Georgette Forney is no better than Sally Jesse Raphael in my opinion. When you see her at SNM rallies, her eyes practically glitter with glee as she watches the women sob. I’ve had no direct contact with Georgette, but I have with Denise Mountenay, who runs the SNM show up in Canada. Denise likes to run newspaper ads that read “Have you been damaged by abortion and want to talk about it?” followed by an 800 number. Again, I’m reminded of the shills for talk shows–”Is your pre-teen daughter dressing like a slut? Call us!”
Denise and SNM were the focus of the Canadian television piece that I also participated in. Deb Goodwin, the producer of the piece, sent me a videotape of the piece about a month ago, and I sat down with a group of my friends to watch it. Admittedly, Denise puts on a good show. She’s kind-looking and speaks softly, making sure that her cross necklace is on full display at all times. The question that I was waiting for the reporter to ask–which she never did–was “Why is it that not one of you seemed to regret your abortions until after you’d had a religious conversion?” I have yet to see someone participating in SNM who during their recitation doesn’t say something about “being saved.” Georgette Forney by her own admission did not regret hers until she “gave her life to Christ” at 35. Denise Mountenay? Same thing.
Do some women regret their abortions? I have no doubt that they do, and despite accusations to the contrary I’ve always acknowledged that. But SNM in a lot of ways reminds me of the rash of “suppressed memories” stories that came out in the nineties. People would be depressed and someone would suggest that they’d been sexually molested as children but just didn’t remember it, and aha! The light came on! SNM seems to work on the same principle. “You’re a woman, you’re depressed … oh, you had an abortion? Well, there you go, honey, there’s your answer, because abortion is OMG TEH EVIL and no decent God-fearing woman would EVER want to have one! It was that jerk you married who made you have one, wasn’t it? You WANTED to be a mommy but you just didn’t know it! Here, come talk in Washington and educate these poor misguided people who don’t believe that every woman secretly longs to carry every pregnancy to term!” It’s become so acceptable to dump on abortion, so fashionable to blame everyone but yourself for your decisions, that no one blinks an eye when SNM brings out their Parade of Victims.
Abortion is such an intensely personal decision that it makes me furious when people like Denise Mountenay and Georgette Forney say that we should outlaw abortion because it’s obvious that it’s a bad experience. I had an absolutely awful experience with a root canal in my teens, enough so it put me totally off dentists for more time than I care to admit to. But do I go around telling people that they shouldn’t have root canals, which are also routinely maligned? Of course not. SNM thinks that it empowers and helps women, but in actuality it oppresses them and punishes them. It says “well, everyone knows women can’t think for themselves or make their own decisions, see what happens when they do? They get all depressed and kill babies! You need to have Big Daddy In The Sky/Your All-Knowing All-Seeing Pastor to guide you!”
But weeping women bring the ratings and the money because everyone enjoys watching other people’s misery, and that’s what it’s all about.
I humbly submit myself as your most avid fangirl.
CommanderD
aka. Polgara
Commander, I’ll fight you for it.
[qoute]Abortion is such an intensely personal decision that it makes me furious when people like Denise Mountenay and Georgette Forney say that we should outlaw abortion because it’s obvious that it’s a bad experience. I had an absolutely awful experience with a root canal in my teens, enough so it put me totally off dentists for more time than I care to admit to. But do I go around telling people that they shouldn’t have root canals, which are also routinely maligned? Of course not.[/quote]
you know the difference between your root canal experience and an abortion? it involves someone else’s life, not just your own. of course, a root canal doesn’t come near being fatal. so i guess you need to think for another analogy.
On the contrary, think of all the tooth decay bacteria that died needlessly because of that root canal! And they were all ‘life’, every single one of them.
Not sentient life, mind you, but of course, neither is an embryo.
I was assaulted by a SNM groupie!
I came to one of their rallies (we were counter-demonstrating) with a big sign that said “I don’t regret my abortion.”
Chick came up to me, tore the sign out of my hands, threw it on the ground, stomped on it, and said “SILENCE!”
The irony!
I’m one of those SNM women and all I can say is thank God for SNM and all the great women and men I’ve met. Unfortunately, you’ve got your glasses on upsidedown. You are absolutely missing the mark and for that I am sorry. I was once like you, can I guess by your remarks: full of bitterness, anger, fury, hatred, defensiveness, and boy what a tumble when I finally fell. Just know that you’ve got a soft place to land when that day comes, because it will come, either now or later. Peace and blessings from a sister who’s silent no more, who doesn’t cry when she tells her story, and knows the truth today that it isn’t about me, but it’s about the human beings that I killed, that were killed in what should have been the safest place in the world. It’s about love and peace. Peace in the womb.
Do you think if you tried you could be a little more patronizing?
Not all women regret their abortions. Most don’t, in fact, and your insistence that everyone who has an abortion will “someday” regret it is pathetic.
Iya, my root canal most certainly did affect someone else’s life, namely the poor dental assistant whose arm I inadvertently broke because I was in such a panic to get away from the sadist who called himself a dentist. She was unable to work for about six weeks. I feel horrible about that because she knew that I was freaking out and told the dentist that it might be a good idea to knock me out, but he said that I was being a baby and she was being stupid.
And anonymous SNM person, I feel sorry for you because you were undoubtedly TOLD that you had to feel bad about your abortion(s) because if you didn’t then you were a cold heartless bitch. That’s the way SNM operates. I had one of your number e-mailing me for weeks trying to cajol me into admitting that I regretted my abortions. When I said there was no way I would because I never had and never will, she got abusive and called me a baby-killing whore. Such a compassionate Christian, eh? When you stop drinking the SNM Kool-Aid, let me know.
omg SNM Kool-Aid…lmao
I’m so adding this blog to my list of ‘favorite internet reads’
I went through the ordeal of feeling intense guilt after having abortions but not till after I decided to become spiritual and join a church. I’m still dealing with the issue. However because I have common sense, a brain, an education and I can think for myself – I didn’t become one of those lost women in the Parade of Victims. I am still pro-choice and will always be pro-choice. Clergy and church leaders should never use politicians and law to to force their anti-abortion beliefs on the rest of the world, especially when their beliefs are mostly based on un-Godly patriarchal power and control. How unfortunate and pathetic that these beliefs are not based on the compassion and mercy that Christ showed his followers or on the spiritual growth, health and well-being of their parishioners. How is it merciful and Godly to force a teenager, young woman, or older woman to carry a prenancy to term who has been brutally raped or is the victim of incest?
SNM feeds into the immature, self-absorbed fantasy of victimhood some women have. A mature adult who regretted their choice would say, “I regret having an abortion, but since I can’t undo it, I’ll learn from it and move on with my life.” But that doesn’t get attention and stroking. Being able to wallow in their delusional misery allows them to be the star of their very own Lifetime movie.
I love how SMN people, like the poster above, suffer from the delusion that “everyone in the world must feel exactly like I do”.
You’re just saying that because there’s no peace in your womb, eyelid. It’s constantly at war!!
To openeyelid ..and all others on this thread…Here is the truth about your assult…
I, Ann Marie Cosgrove, president of Silent No More Minnesota had gathered 6 women and 1 man at the U of M in Oct. in front of Coffeman Union building…During our 1 hour in which we had a permit to be there to give public testimonies of our expereice with abortion, we held a MOMENT OF SILENCE for ALL women who have died from abortion whether legal of illegal…whether from the abortion itself or from taking their own life afterwards because they could not deal with the pain…I asked all in attendance to respect this MOMENT OF SILENCE… YOU however …openeyelid…kept your mouth running…screaming shouting you became a crazy woman…we have it on tape..thanks by the way..it adds to our promotional piece greatly…A young woman who is 16 years old who is adopted whose own adopted mother had two abortions and could not have any children of her own after the abortions…spoke that day…this 16 year old girl got angry with you because you cause her great pain…with your vile mouth…She has had kids in her school ask why she wasn’t aborted when they find out she is adopted…
Then the mother of this girl came over to you and apologized for her daugther and you accepted the apology..you and she ended up hugging…YES Hugging, its all on tape.
This does not surprise me. Keep telling lies to convince yourselfs…
Openeyelids…you want your voice heard…get your own permit and have your own event…
Yes…she came over to you ripped your sign out of your hands and asked you to be SILENT…but the silence was for that moment and only for that moment…
No one told you to shut up even through you became a crazy woman…why because we had the microphone we were just going to be louder than you anyhow…we really could of cared less how loud you got or what you said…it was just for the moment that I asked for respect for our dead sisters…and you…selfcentered as you were that day could not give it a moments rest…
I am sure your comrades are proud of you…but you made yourself out to be the fool…
Isn’t it a little harsh to knock on people with possible recovered abuse memories? The women that I know who have been severely sexually abused go through times of not remembering the actual abuse events; this does not mean that the abuse never happened!
openeyelid…start telling the truth…you called her a groupie..you know who she was and what her story was..because her mother told you…
You have a lot of nerve…making it out to be some really big assult…half truths are your words..
Hannah, of course not. But there were many people who had their lives ruined because they were accused of abuse that never happened, courtesy of doctors who convinced their patients that it did.
Ann Marie, my blog is not a court of law, so no need to post a deposition. If you have a problem with eyelid, please take it up elsewhere. I know the story, and regardless of the circumstances that girl should not have ripped the sign from eyelid’s hand. Even the most fervent protester knows physical contact is crossing the line. And I would say that if it was a pro-choicer ripping a sign from a “pro-lifer,” lest you think I’m homering.
Your blog is public domain…with the abilty to post comments…if you allow someone to write 1/2 truths…then the person who is able to tell the whole story should… set the record straight…something you are afraid of, which is why you made this response…
And you didn’t know the story…but now you do…the Whole Truth…but since you live and deal in 1/2 truths what more could I expect…
I’m in SNM, and have been involved since being invited, not pressured, not corralled, not trotted anywhere, for over 2 years. Ms. Beninato, you sadly are rather narrow in your research and knowledge focus, but you then turn around and use nothing but a broad brush to paint everyone as you think they are, in your foregone conclusion. As one of our other commenters asked, is what you’re doing just “willful ignorance to score rhetorical points?” I’m starting to wonder if the answer is yes, because you’re very good at it.
Sound bite, anyone?
You know how to play your adoring, eat-it-all-up media, and you play them to the hilt. You milk your 15 minutes of fame quite well. We on the other hand wish to be “put out of these ‘jobs’” as soon as possible.
I’ve seen Georgette speak and have been with her in public, at the counterprotest at the March for Choice last April [ http://afterabortion.blogspot.com/2004/04/march-4-25-04-continued.html ], standing side by side for hours all that day. She is anything but “trotting us out” or “crowing!” Patricia, please.
You say you’ve had no direct contact with Forney. Please supply us proof that you were at an SNM event and saw Georgette speak or “hold court” as you claim with “glittering eyes.” You have unwittingly become a master of hyberbole.
I did not “regret [my] abortion until after [I'd] had a religious conversion.” I know many people who also didn’t have such. How many “someones participating in SNM” have you actually heard with your own ears? Have you read all 1,000 affidavits of the Operation Outcry-Silent No More motions to overturn Roe and Doe? You certainly can, they’re available to anyone who wants to read them.
This blog entry of yours descends into the hysterical and pubescent-speak tones, and I don’t stoop to that level. Neither does Georgette. Open your mouth and speak for those women who don’t regret their abortions. But speak intelligently and maturely, or you do yourself and them a disservice. We know such women exist and though I may not understand it, I am not on this earth to force you or anyone to regret your abortions. By the same token, just as I won’t shame you into regretting your abortion, stop trying the hysterical and slanderous caricature-forging of Georgette and people like me that you use to get us to stop regretting ours:
“Well, there you go, honey, there’s your answer, because abortion is OMG TEH EVIL and no decent God-fearing woman would EVER want to have one! It was that jerk you married who made you have one, wasn’t it?”
Now you sound just like Sally Jesse Raphael.
As for your dismissal of “You’re a woman, you’re depressed … oh, you had an abortion?”:
Were you aware that the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM III-R), once listed abortion as a life event which can produce Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)? The APA thought enough of the problems it was seeing women experience from abortion in the 13 years after abortion was legalized nationwide to recognize it as a stressor causing PTSD.
Do you know what a difficult, exhaustive process it is to put something INTO the DSM? I’ve done the research; it is checked six ways to Saturday, by tons of researchers and board members.
But abortion was removed from the current edition, after being included in the book for 7 full years. I have the 1987 copy of that old version and it is in there, in black and white. You can buy your own copy for about 8 bucks, used, on Amazon, just like I did.
Keep in mind, I’m not saying, nor does the APA’s 1987 book say, that PTSD = PAS (Post Abortion Syndrome) or that PAS is a clinical diagnosis. But let me quote to you from the DSM-III-R itself:
Page 247-251: “Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: …The…symptoms involve reexperiencing the traumatic event, avoidance of stimuli associated with the event, or numbing of general responsiveness, and increased arousal…The specific stressor and its severity should be recorded on Axis IV (p. 18).”
Axis IV lists several “psychosocial stressor” categories, one of which reads, on page 20: “Physical illness or injury: e.g., illness, accident, surgery, abortion [emphasis this author].”
The DSM-IV, published in 1994, eliminated abortion as one of those psychosocial stressors.
Did you also know there was no research done at all from 1987 to 1994 to determine that abortion should be removed from the DSM? The APA simply could not leave it in there, it could not continue admitting that it caused notable psychological harm, since it began endorsing abortion.
No one is saying that–just because the APA for seven years recognized abortion as a life event that could cause the symptoms of PTSD–that you must be sorry for or regret your abortion, or feel depressed because of it.
But please, the conversation would actually be enlightening for you and for all of us, if you got down from the high horse of belittling those who do regret or feel depressed. If some on the regretting side have done that to you or your family, firstly, how can you be so certain they ARE postabortive/regretting folks and not just some nutcase prolifers (I know at least one or two of THOSE!)? Secondly, why retaliate? Why do the same things that they’ve done to you by attacking US all with a broad brush? Doesn’t that make you no better than those idiots who’ve harrassed you? I’ve been harrassed too by those “on your side.” Does that make us “even?” No, of course not. Neither justifies either offense. You may live “eye for an eye” but I don’t.
Besides, it doesn’t become you, and it doesn’t help your cause. It only makes you appear shrill and strident yourself.
There are several women who’ve come to our blog over the past 2 years who are prochoice and yet have managed to debate and converse with open minds and who have found that we’re not the bible-thumping “Jeebus-freaks” they all thought (and you still think) we are. We’d like that to include you. You might learn that we’re not your enemy. At least not those of us at our blog.
No matter what the “truth”, the fact remains–there was physical contact made, and that crossed the line. I’ve had “pro-lifers” yell absolutely horrible things at me, but I have NEVER touched one (even though I was sorely tempted). Your girl stepped over the line. If you’re going to protest, you need to learn restraint. No excuse.
Thank you Annie…absolutely right on!…you and yours don’t regret your abortion…fine you don’t regret your abortion…Scream it from the roof tops..write blogs about it..start websites…
That does not mean others don’t…and the belittlement you pour out about the those who do will catch up with you….never say never…
The point of the whole post is..the story has a lot more to it..and the young 16 year old girl…Yes…she should of not of taken the sign out of her hands and I would hope you as an adult would have restaint as all of us adults did that day…but 1/2 Truths are still 1/2 Truths…which you live with so why should anyone expect anything different from you or any of your supporters..
again you want your voice heard, get a permit and have your own event…
Lots of whining…A++++++
Regret your abortions all you want, that’s fine. It was your choice. It’s your choice to regret. But don’t you dare use your choice to take away MINE.
If it will be the people’s will…Let the people will be the law…
In time all darkness comes into the light…and the Truth shall be seen by all….
I used to be just as hostile to pro lifers or anyone who I thought was trying to take away my right. I hated myself honestly, but that started way before the abortions. I had no compassion whatsoever, in fact I was numb, just angry. I also happened to be an active alcoholic, sex addict with an eating disorder. Talk about a living hell. Did it ever occur to you that we regret because we finally have faced the horrifying truth (it is horrifying) that that they were human beings? If you want to be flippant about this, go ahead, but I’m calling you on your fear. I don’t judge you, I care about you, that’s all, otherwise I wouldn’t be here. Godspeed.
Regret all you want–but stand up and say “I made this choice. I did. Not anyone else. I may regret it, but I made it by myself.” Don’t say “Well, I regret it, so therefore no one should have that choice” or “Well, I wouldn’t have, but …” which is an extraordinarily common theme on the anti-abortion story sites.
And I don’t go to your sites and your blogs and say “Well, you should write this or say that or acknowledge whatever,” so you have a HELL of a nerve to come onto my site and blog and do that. If you don’t like my site, don’t visit it. If you don’t like my blog, don’t read it. But you can’t stay away, can you? You just can’t believe that a woman would actually take responsibility for her actions without a deity or pastor or cronies guiding her. SNM takes major advantage of damaged women by claiming that their damage came from abortion and ONLY from abortion while ignoring all the other elements. INS contributors may be sad about the circumstances, but every single one of them took responsibility for their decision to abort. If you regret it, fine, but don’t you EVER deny another woman the choice.
As for fear? Please. Sure, I would have done things differently, but I would have much rather had my abortions than have been forced to birth children that I didn’t want and wasn’t remotely able to care for. And spare me the adoption crap–that reduces a woman to the level of an organic incubator. It is not any woman’s job to provide anyone with a child. I hope someday that you find peace, because you won’t get it through SNM. I found mine many years ago, and I live a joyful life every day because I accept the choices that I’ve made and don’t beat myself up over the past–a concept which is alien to SNM.
We would have no reason to come here if you didn’t write about us…so stop writing about us and we will stop visiting..
You are throwing stones oh little one that lives in a glass house…
I see how it is in your world..black and white when you want it to be…tons of grey when you need it to be…
What a bunch of whiny brats these SNMers are.
“Waaaaah! We get to say anything we want about abortion but when someone else has a different opinion we’re going to act like poo-flinging monkeys! Waaaaaaah!”
…of course many of us say “we did it” however the world we live in, the world of real flesh and blood..the fact is many women and young girls are forced into having an abortion…I have been to the abortion clinic when an irate mother of a 14 year says “No 14 year old daughter of mine is going to have a baby”
One gal I met got raped at 16 her mother forced her into the abortion…she didn’t want to abort her baby…but her mother insisted…Whose choice was that?
So 6 months later she got pregnant on purpose and moved out of the house…the death of her first child caused her to hate her mother. Why? Because her mother dragged her to the abortion clinic..and forced her into it..
I know, I know what you think…no one can force someone into an abortion…we all know what we were doing on the table…
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see and none so deaf as those who refuse to hear…
My world lots and lots of colors…anything is possible…your world black and white…with some grey when needed…
Does this ann marie person have a job or do something to do other than sit all day on a blog site and post and post and post…?
Say ann marie – what’s your deal? Your continuous posts may reveal a neurotic and unstable personality. What’s really scary is that you are president of an organization that’s in the public eye a lot. Hm…actually that might be OK…keep on posting over and over again using statements that show your lack of clear thinking, lack of any kind of Godly grace and mercy and very obviously a total lack of peace in your soul. The educated, clear-thinking and compassionate public will see this.
I notice that Anna Marie is too much of a chickenshit to have her own blog where prochoice people can have a field day pureeing her every post.
ins webmaster, RE:
“I made this choice. I did. Not anyone else. I may regret it, but I made it by myself.”
That is exactly what I and thousands of us DO say. But you haven’t heard that from us because you’re not there to hear it all.
It isn’t about “not liking your site.” It’s about your perpetuating falsehoods and partial truths about people like us. We have every right to stand up and show that you’re wrong in these instances. You enabled comments. You invited the world to comment by doing so.
If you tell ann marie to “take it up elsewhere,” then why didn’t you tell eyelid also to do so? Because her side of the story supported what you want to perpetuate about people who regret our abortions.
Once again, since false Christians who really don’t understand what their faith is all about, called you “a baby-killing whore,” you and your followers think it’s ok to stoop to such an abhorrent level of name-calling with “whiny brats”…”poo-flinging monkeys”…”neurotic and unstable”. You can’t expect anyone to cut you slack when you are guilty of the very things you abhor having done to you by others! You do yourselves such a disservice. Why do you choose to be as bad as the people who call themselves Christian but really aren’t? Does it simply suit your purpose to hate us all, to dismiss us all, to accuse us all of saying and believing what that hateful, stalking idiot said and believes?
For the record, we have jobs. Jobs that allow us flexibility to comment from time to time. I work for myself, my own small company. I’m the boss, the President. I make up the 55 hours I work a week at night or on weekends. It’s done all the time.
dyfferent, you also stoop to the level of the people you hate by calling Ann Marie “chickenshit”, but she doesn’t need a blog of her own, she’s a regular commenter on our blog and her views are well-known there. Why should she duplicate what’s already being done there? Just to suit your taunting, demeaning accusation?
afterabortion.blogspot.com
I’ll add that you all should read our commenting guidelines [ http://afterabortion.blogspot.com/2004/05/some-guidelines-to-follow-in-posting.html ] before posting there, so you’ll know how that blog is run: with respect for both sides.
We DON’T keep you who don’t regret from commenting over at our blog.
I was one of those persons who were told I had ‘forgotten sexual abuse’. I was 15 and in therapy for severe anxious trouble (started when I was 8) and the therapist tried to have me admit my father sexually assaulted me. Mind you he is the sweetest man on Earth and could never have even dreamed of such an act, but she was convinced it HAD to be his fault. At the end my father refused to come with me at the therapist, in fear she might try to get him arrested.
And of course, my anxious troubles came from chemical imbalances in the brain. I was never assaulted. Duh.
As for the SNM movement, I see it as a safe harbor for immaturity. That’s life people-Shit happens and you get over it. What’s the point of dressing in black and cry-babying for the cameras? Get over it. It happened. You regret it? Too bad, it cannot be undone. What’s the point of trying to force others not to have abortions because YOU regret it? Immaturity, egocentrism. I don’t regret mine. I wish I could have kept the baby, but I couldn’t given our situation. End of line. What’s the point of wallowing in self-pity?
Annie, I thought Emily ran the afterabortion Blogspot. We corresponded a few times, and I respected her calm approach.
I won’t tell people what to post or what not to post here–kind of stupid to do considering the blog’s a whopping three days old. I am not and will not be the the referee. This isn’t the guestbook. Fight your own battles–and that goes for both sides. The reason I didn’t say anything to eyelid is because I chose to say something to her off this blog, so don’t be so quick to jump to conclusions about homering. As long as this debate exists, there will be name-calling and poo-flinging on both sides.
But I will say this–I may be pro-choice, but you won’t see me saying “every woman should have an abortion.” SNM and its ilk, however, say, either by words or actions, “Every pregnant woman should carry the child to term.”
Ok, I have many jobs and one is working with children who call each other names…
Those who post here calling me names are worst then any of them!!! Your childish behavior is not very becoming to you if you are an adult.
I think it’s very funny that I am called a chickenshit and I am the one who gave me full name and state where I am from and all of you hide behind blog names…go figure.
What has your underwear in a bundle is because we are speaking out in public about the truth of our abortion expereince….which I don’t see you doing oh sure you write your story and get it posted at INS but do who even use your real name… and a select few get press..but really who’s the chicken shits now….
you have come to the reality that the women and men involved with SNM are having an impact and you are now scared. I have news for you…it’s not just the women and men whose baby were killed by abortion but the family members and friends who supported them in the decision…who are now speaking out about their regret…It’s only going to get bigger people..
As I have said a few times on this thread…You want your voice heard…get your own permit and have your own event, show your face and tell your story…it’s actually pretty simple..but you have to have courage to do so…
The only reason I came here was because you belittled us for speaking out…because we are not playing by your rules…the only reason I made any comments is because one of your conrades told a story and gave the impression she was told to be silent that her voice was not to be hear…and wrote, “the irony” well she scream and ranted and raved the whole time no one asked her to be quite until we asked for a moment of silence for our dead sisters whose lives have been taken by abortion…she made a complete fool of herself and ranted and raved even louder so really the only irony was lost on her…
Some of you must be pretty new to this blogging thing…a blog is public domain…when you allow comments…people are going to leave them…pretty simple really..
My posts were responses to those who choose to respond to what was being posted..which it’s pretty normal to respond…blogging lesson 101 is over…
Otherwise I have no interest in posting here…
Oh and as Annie said…I am over at http://www.afterabortion.blogspot.com. come on over…we will treat you kind…
…I think it’s funny how you write you won’t tell people what to write here…and yet you did to me..stating your form is not to be used as a court of law and if I had a problem with your friend to take it somewhere else…
Are you now changing your mind?
This is exactly the behavior I have spoken of that is happening here and on your site…your world, black and white and some grey when needed…
I think you should go back and read your own posts….and please clarify your positions here…
Ow … my optometrist is going to be really ticked off on my next visit because I’m doing severe damage to my optic nerves with all the eye-rolling I’ve been doing lately.
One thing I will concede to Ann Marie–yes, this blog is a public forum. I chose to make it public because I was tired of people from both sides whining that I was catering to the other on the guestbook. In the newest entry, you can read exactly what I expect from visitors here.
Ann Marie, the reason I jumped in was because I did not want personal battles taking up space, and from my perspective that’s what it looked like it was turning into. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
It was never going to be a personal battle…just stating the facts…when one makes a statement as she did without giving the whole story of why she was asked to be silent..then “your side” will feel vindicated…Just reporting the fact miss..
If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen…it’s always worked for me…
Why do I get the feeling your comrades are the ones who are whinning to you the most…In all honestly I feel so sorry for you…to have to deal with such childish behavior from what I am guessing mostly adults. Oh I get those who think like me I am sure have given you a run for it…but the comments from those who think like you I can only imagine…as I have been a witness to them here..
but then when you put yourself out there as the “one” to be the spokesperson where they can’t come out and be public…that is what you ask for..
I must say that is the beauty of SNM we are all so willing to be so public…it is the greatest feeling of freedom and the fact that we don’t just do it on one day with 10′s of thousands of other who think like us…but we go to campuses and street corners, parks and capital builings…any where from 2-100 of us…standing and speaking…It’s a freedom so great…and the courage to do so comes from heaven…
Nah, don’t feel sorry for me. I knew what I was getting into. I’m sure there’s people on your side of the fence who make you roll your eyes too. But I can really only speak for myself. As I say in my little profile off to the right there, I didn’t think that suddenly I would be considered any sort of expert or torchbearer, and often I’m uncomfortable because I don’t want INS to be about me and I feel weird when people want to write about me or have me give speeches or film me. I don’t want followers. If I hadn’t come up with the idea for INS, I have no doubt someone else would have.
And there is freedom on this side too–the freedom to say, “I don’t feel guilty or ashamed, and I won’t be made to feel guilty or ashamed about it. I made the choice that was right for me.”
Ann Marie, the truth is that you are the ones that barged in here uninvited and definitely unwanted. You could have kept your feelings over in your neighborhood, but you chose to troll here because someone had the nerve to see you and your ilk as you truly are. You can’t handle the truth.
You and your ilk are a bunch of smug, self-righteous, arrogant, self-serving scumbags. You can’t handle the fact that we’re not going to fall for your Christo-facist claptrap. You can’t handle women who see themselves as more than just a walking uterus. You want to live your life according to a book of misogynist fairy tales? Fine. We don’t have to. You want to wallow in your misery? If that’s what gets you the attention you so desperately and childishly crave. But keep your misery away from my freedom.
Boo-hoo, can’t take the heat? Then get out. Don’t let the door hit you where Mother Nature split you.
anonymous…the difference between most of you who will post here and those of us who post on Afterabortion…we in general are very kind and don’t lower ourselves to your level of vile repute.
Emily put up “rules of conduct” over there so that people like yourselve leave your vile tone outside of the blog…kept for places such as here…
Sweetheart I never said I couldn’t take the heat but sure seems to be getting to you..
peace to your soul…
well to say you don’t regret your abortion on a website that you don’t have to give your real name is really quite different than standing in front of a crowd you have no idea where they stand on the subject…Ladies..if you are so proud ….stand tall and let the world see your faces…
I may be back…but if I am not…it’s been real…oh and openeyelid…see you on campus..I hope your baby boy is doing well..I mean that.. Peace
ann marie:
In my opinion, you’re not exactly giving your group good representation. Your comments have been self-righteous and patronizing.
Not to mention, you seem a little out of touch with reality–the harassment that post-abortive women who are NOT sorry can receive is disgusting. For many of them, admitting that they aborted and are perfectly fine with that decision is not the safest of moves. If you don’t realize that, you ought.
And finally, you keep insisting that the individuals posting comments in reply to you are bitter, vile, nasty people who are acting defensive. Perhaps a few are defensive, but the rest are calling the situation like they see it. And the way I see it, you are seriously projecting your own problems onto this blog and the commenters.
Abortion is great! It thins the gene pool!
Were you at the March your side put on last April…talk about harrassment…SNM had women and men there…they were spit on threatened, screamed at so much your women and men vains were popping the sides of their necks……outside of physical violence your side believed any went when it came to those brave women and men from SNM standing there speaking their truth of abortion…
Oh and S.F. March for Life this last Jan…wow…you people get nuts..out of control…sure we have some on our side…even some who claim to be Pro-Life and then take a life…that’s not me nor the thousands of Pro-Lifers I know…nor the majority…
I have seen your side react…it’s not pretty…
You of course are entitled to your opinion…and of course you believe I am being self-rightous and patronzing…
ann marie, I was not at the March, nor have I ever protested another demonstration.
It seems difficult for you to distinguish between things said out of anger, in a situation where emotions are running high (such as a march) and the pro-choice movement as a whole.
It is hard NOT to get angry with you people, to be quite honest. You are trying to take away my right to bodily integrity. That makes me angry, and a lot of what the pro-life movement does makes me angry. Am I not allowed to express that? If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
The “truth” about abortion is that it is a medical procedure used to terminate a pregnancy. Some women regret it, others do not.
The truth YOU are touting does not resonate with myself nor with thousands of other women.
And try as you might to distance yourself from violent, religious fanatics who would want to “punish” women for engaging in sex, you are essentially fighting for the same thing–the removal of a woman’s right to choose.
Insults and antagonism happen on both sides of this debate. Your focus on what pro-choicers have said or done at marches does not detract from what pro-lifers have done to women at clinics, the harassment against doctors and nurses who perform abortions, the sniping, the vandalism, the stalking…
Whether you would call them “truly” pro-life or not hardly interests me. They identify with the cause and if you are so calm and peaceful and good, you should worry about cleaning up your movement before attacking the actions of ours.
Especially, again, considering that the actions at a march or protest are, to my mind, not at all comparable with the exploitation and harm done by members of the pro-life movement against regular individuals all the time.
I take full responsibility for my abortions. I am not guilt-ridden and full of pain today. I’m just so sorry that you (collective you) never seem to respond to the bottom line about abortion: that it’s the killing of a defenseless human being. Call me arrogant, call me a Jesus freak, call me what you will. I know a lot of people who don’t believe in God who think that killing a defenseless human being is wrong. I am speaking up to honor the human beings that I killed, for all human beings who were and will be killed in the womb. But wait, maybe you do actually believe that it’s okay to kill defenseless human beings?
Please help me understand: if you don’t believe that they are human beings, what are they? Maybe the story about Stuart Little is true afterall.
If you do think that it’s okay to kill defenseless human beings, then I guess that’s the end of the arguement. What else can I say? Still care about you, tho I’m sure that burns you too. Blessings.
butterfly–
I’m sorry, but I feel that your words are insincere. From where I stand, if you cared about me (and my rights), you would support my right to control my reproductive future. You would recognize my right to bodily integrity.
As it is, it seems you only care about preventing me from having control of what goes on in my own body. Cheers.
The difference between us, Ann Marie, is that our point of view respects your choices. You can regret your abortion until the cows come home. You can weep and wail all you want, just so the pastor will pay attention to you. You can carry a pregnancy to term without being legally compelled to terminate it.
You anti-choicers, on the other hand, want to be able to impose your Christo-facist way of life on us.
That makes us angry. And guess what? I do hate you. I am not tolerant of people trying to take away my freedoms and turn this country into a theocracy with the Christian Taliban in power. Get used to us fighting back. Can’t take it? Don’t dish it out. I don’t care about being nice to trash like you. Suck on that.
Wow – Ann Marie, you’ve got some serious issues. Froth at the mouth a bit? Seriously, calm down before you have a coronary or something.
You’re right, your groupie attacking me wasn’t assault – it was assault and battery. Battery is defined as “harmful or offensive contact”- assault is only the THREAT thereof. I described exactly what happened in my post, so I didn’t skew anything. And believe me, it constitutes assault. I love how you’re defending it. Why is it that anti-choicers always seem to think that when THEY assault people, it’s all ok? I guess it’s the same mindset that tells you it’s ok to shoot abortion providers.
She was adopted? So’s my brother. Only he doesn’t assault people – or use his adopted status as an excuse for illegal behavior. Maybe he was raised better? Or in a BETTER ENVIRONMENT?
Thanks for letting me know that you have the incident on tape. I’ll turn that info over to the police. The only reason she wasn’t charged for attacking me is that I didn’t know her name. I see that you do, however! Thanks!
Ladies..if you are so proud ….stand tall and let the world see your faces…
Here we agree! Stand tall and proclaim your non-regret!
Only don’t do it in front of Ann Marie, or she will get a 16-year-old girl to physically attack you. Like she did with me! :)
oh and openeyelid…see you on campus..I hope your baby boy is doing well..
I’m wondering if that’s meant to be a threat. Please stay away from me and my family.
As for my son, he is thriving and happy.
*sigh* Butterfly, the killing of defenseless human beings happens every freaking day, with children that are already born and have led a life of suffering because their parents didn’t have the means and/or the will to take care of them, or were just plain gone.
I’d love people to take care of all those kids who can feel mental and physical pain, and need help right now, before trying to suppress someone’s right to avoid adding one more unwanted, suffering being on top of the pile.
openeyelid. Of course YOU have to go there geez. Well now I guess you can tell your comrades you were threatened, which from your previous posts no doubt you will do, since 1/2 truths when knowing the truth seems to be your m.o….NO THREAT..remember we were the peaceful ones not you. We weren’t the ones ranting and raving, screaming and having a fit remember that was you.
It just means your craziness and your group of supporters are not keeping us off campus we will be back on the U of M campus..and I meant that about your son, he is a beautiful little boy, as some of those from SNMM said to you when they spoke to you…
Funny how we were so kind to you and yet you were the one displaying frightening behavior…and when some us approuched you accepted the kindness that came your way from those of us who did speak to you…but then maybe it’s hard for you to be where you are at…for that I am sorry…
I do wish you well…
You are the frightful one, Ann Marie. You are the one trying to destroy freedom and turn this country into a theocracy. That will not be met with smiles and kindness, you self-righteous, arrogant bitch.
anonymous…I can understand your fear and your anger…I have met many women like you who at one time believed and felt as you do…however these women now speak out for SNM…
I was never like any of you, in your strong feelings about abortion rights…so I cannot relate to you on that level…but like I said, because of SNM I have met lots of women who could and did at one time stand with you…
I think this is why so many of former women of choice think many of you will someday regret it…because they stood with you at one time….for years…never regretting it…being strong advocates for abortion. Many of them coming from Pro-Choice families…just like some who are Pro-Choice comes from Pro-Life families..
But these women know their journey and identify themselves with you because they were you….I can’t say that…
I wonder how many of you can say you have a friendship with someone who speaks out for SNM or even can say to you they regret their abortions or even someone who is Pro-Life……
Well I have friends who are Pro-Choice, some who had abortions and some who have not…one in particular is a woman whose car is a driving billboard for Roe and every other far left wing belief…You just can’t miss it…If you know what I mean. I told her, “All I have to do is read your car and I know where you stand”..She is very pro choice…we have a real friendship. Sure we debates while riding in her car…I think it’s very funny…We also laugh and joke and have a great time…
But how many of you are willing to risk getting to know someone who thinks different than you and develope a friendship?
Maybe for you this is a war and those who think different then you are the enemy…
Father Frank Pravoe (sp) from Priest for Life…has lunch every week with one of the top Pro Choice lawyers who goes to court for you…
They have a true friendship….
I have been attacked by Pro-choice people myself…infact something like openeyelid…where my sign was attacked..right in front of the police and they didn’t do anything about it…and neither did I…
I’m not interested in being friends with someone who cares more about a clump of DNA in my uterus than me. Someone who works to take away my freedom is not good enough for my friendship.
The pro-choice movement has been nice and reasonable for too long. All it’s gotten us is harrassed, belittled, stalked, bombed and shot. It’s the misogynist, Christo-facist, pro-LIE movement that has the Paul Hills and Eric Rudolphs, but incredibly try to claim the moral high ground.
Go sell your “Buy-BULL” thumping garbage elsewhere, Ann Marie. No one buys your phony act of being loving and kind. You can ramble on and on all you like, we all know you’re a whiny liar and a victimhood junkie just like the rest of the pro-LIE movement.
The “She’s angry ’cause she is regretting her abortion but won’t admit it” is amongst the stupidest, most presumptuous claims I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading.
Of course, being angry because you have the audacity to try to have our collective rights removed based on your own egocentrism HAS to be because we secretly agree with you. What else can there be? < /sarcasm >
And you’re the one saying we see everything in black and white? That’s rich.
ins webmaster, Emily is the founder of afterabortion.blogspot.com and does “run it,” I am one of the invited co-bloggers there. Have been since Jan. 04.
As for “I won’t tell people what to post or what not to post here”, it seems that you did already, by saying to Ann Marie, “If you have a problem with eyelid, please take it up elsewhere.” Which is the real policy: telling no one what to post or not, or telling only the side that disagrees with you?
Patricia, I never asked you to “fight my battle” for me. I simply said you can’t expect anyone to cut you slack when you are guilty of the very things you abhor having done to you by others.
As long as this debate exists, there will be name-calling and poo-flinging, but not from me or my friends. It always come from you and yours, though, sadly, to your own detriment.
As Patricia said, coming here is not “barging in.” If it were a private discussion board, that would be barging.
Defending one’s side of a volatile story from misinformation or half-truths and possible slander is not the same as trolling. I know Ann Marie well and she admittedly has let her upset over how you initially, collectively treated her here, get the better of her emotions temporarily. It was several of you who BEGAN the sarcasm and snotnose treatment.
I dare say in the past I might have reacted the same way if my dead child whom I miss terribly and wish were alive today was likened flippantly to “your root canals,” and if my emotions about it were called “drinking the SNM KoolAid,” and if someone told only partial truth about someone else “[tearing] the sign out of my hands” (which if you really think about it, isn’t assault or battery, technically, but defacement of property, or maybe disturbing the peace).
Your collective and overwhelming lack of sensitivity for Ann Marie or any of us is as astounding as the same lack in the person who called Patricia a “baby-killing whore,” but you can’t see that side of yourselves or recognize your responsibility in inviting such angry behavior from others.
openeyelid wrote, “I was assaulted by a SNM groupie! I came to one of their rallies (we were counter-demonstrating) with a big sign that said “I don’t regret my abortion.” Chick came up to me, tore the sign out of my hands, threw it on the ground, stomped on it, and said “SILENCE!”
You yourself weren’t touched or threatened, nor were you thrown on the ground or stomped on, by your own admission. What happened to you, openeyelid, is no worse than what happened to me at the counterprotest at the March for Choice last April, although I daresay I was in much graver danger than you: for standing still and saying absolutely not a single word (unlike you, who were screaming), I had over 100 frothing-at-the-mouth women, standing not more than a foot in front of me, screaming in anger at me for holding a “I Regret My Abortion” sign. I think being verbally assaulted by 100 angry women is a lot more fear-inducing than what you experienced. The only thing that saved me was a flimsy mobile barricade and the fact that there were riot police somewhere in the area although not at all visible to this mob. I don’t know how I did it, but I never said a word in response, in all of about 5 or 6 hours that day, and there was much more verbal abuse I received for just being silent.
You who are not sorry here on this blog INCITE those who “are sorry” like Ann Marie into getting angry, and then you dismiss such women who have natural reactions to your venom. Ann Marie fell into your trap, as such, unfortunately.
As I told Andrew Sullivan once who like you, spewed such nastiness at me unprovoked, “Perhaps you ought not attack people first, then see what kind of response you get.”
openeyelid, you were not attacked or assaulted. Call it what you will, but please, have some levelheadeness and maturity about this: you were silenced after going on an auditory rampage in a place YOU were uninvited to. You really could have had, instead, the SNM women just call over a police officer and have you arrested for being in a permitted area without a proper permit (the SNM events all have to file for and receive permits) and thus also for disturbing the peace or inciting a riot yourself. That is what you were doing, in reality.
Yeah, you guys don’t fling poo. You prefer harassment, assault, and the occasional clinic bombing or shooting to liven things up. When was the last time you heard of a pro-choicer bombing a NRTL office? “Waah, people are calling me names,” you whine. Well, waah, people from your side are physically assaulting and occasionally killing us. You know, post-preborn fetuses. Not very pro-life, is it? If you’re going to judge on the extremists on this side, guess what’s going to come back? Remember, “judge not, lest ye be judged.”